Ok there are threads starting about the unlocked T mobile phone in Germany. Here is an extract from the conversation with DEV team.

Just to let the world know.
In a forum in the Netherlands a guy (original post:http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/...ssage/29131396)
has bought a unlocked iPhone in Germany (Yes for €999,-).
He explains that the gets the same iPhone as the people who are buying it with a
T-Mobile 2-year montly subscription. However T-Mobile is calling Apple that they have sold you a iPhone that has to be unlocked. Apple than changes something in you Apple-store account (can take up to 24 hours). If you than activate it at home you will have a unlocked iPhone.

Don't ask me anymore details because I just wanted to bring this under the attention of the dev team. I didn't bought it my self I'm only the messenger

Well if that guy could send that iphone to dev team then I guess they would find the solution for all firmwares and bootloaders


You guys don't seem to understand, let me explain it to you in more detail:

1. you go to a local T-Mobile shop and ask for an unlocked iPhone for 999 Euro
2. the sales person calls a special number at T-Mobile to pass on the IMEI for the iPhone to be unlocked (alternative: the customer calls but it isn't recommended because it could delay the process)
3. T-Mobile sends the IMEI of the iPhone to be unlocked to Apple
4. Apple flags the IMEI on their servers as "unlocked"

Meaning: the "unlocked" iPhone works with the same firmware and baseband like the locked ones, there is no difference. The difference happens during the activation process where Apple sends some sort of IMEI-dependent code to allow all SIM cards.

Here's the catch: EACH TIME you connect the iPhone to iTunes, the code is re-checked to make sure that this iPhone is authorized to be unlocked. This "check" doesn't happen locally with iTunes but it happens remotely on the Apple servers, meaning that it is almost impossible to program some sort of keycode generator to fool the activation/registration process of iTunes/Apple servers.
Theoretically (actually it IS possible), Apple could remove the unlock from the currently sold unlocked T-Mobile iPhones if they want to, for example if the court dismisses Vodafone's allegations. Of course they won't do it, T-Mobile can't afford to sell unlocked iPhones and then re-lock them again, this would not hold up in court and it won't happen.

The only thing which may be interesting is the initial activation/registration process with iTunes when you connect the unlocked iPhone for the first time.
Even if we find a method to generate a fake code, the next time the iPhone connects to iTunes, iTunes sends the code and the IMEI to Apple for verification and of course this would fail the verification process.

I know, some people don't want to use iTunes, so maybe this would be a way to get an unlocked iPhone but with a limited functionality.

Another thing: iTunes 7.5 seems to be pretty mean. Apparently it deactivates an already activated iPhone if it detects an "unauthorized" SIM card inside the SIM tray. I'm pretty sure that with the introduction of the iPhone in France and it's unlocked version, Apple made sure that the whole IMEI registration process is fool proof and I doubt there is a way to spoof the IMEI of one unlocked iPhone to make dozends of others unlocked. Apple would surely detect this through iTunes.

Furthermore: we don't know if the iPhone sends some sort of identification to Apple servers when connected to the internet. The whole stock market app "scandal" actually shows that the iPhone actually sends some ident code (based on the IMEI) to providers, maybe even to Apple.

To make it short: don't be too excited about the unlocked iPhone in Germany or France. If you buy one, be happy with it, it will stay unlocked. If you're hoping for a hack/crack based on the method how Apple unlocks these phones based on the IMEI, I highly doubt it.

It is also my understanding (I'll find out tomorrow when I get my hands on a friend's officially unlocked iPhone) that you need to connect to iTunes EACH TIME you insert a new SIM in it. The new SIM deactivates the iPhone when connected to iTunes and then you need to re-activate using the new SIM (which of course isn't a problem since the phone's IMEI is flagged as "unlocked" on the Apple servers).
I know for sure tomorrow, so please be patient, I get the unlocked iPhone for one whole day to play around with and I'll post all observations in a seperate thread.

Here's btw a little rumour for you guys: according to an Apple source, Apple will introduce a completely new firmware, bb and bootloader with the introduction of the SDK next year. Apparently Apple wants to "seperate" the base software/programs from the third party stuff, so there will be some sort of safe "virtual" environment where the third party apps can be installed to to make sure they don't crash/destroy the iPhones base firmware/bb/bootloader. This apparently requires a complete re-programming of the current firmware/bootloader.


You don't seem to understand: what is the iPhone good for if I NEVER EVER can connect it to iTunes again, meaning no future updates, no recovery (possible with iTunes ONLY), no buying songs/TV shows/etc..

I really don't understand why people would use the iPhone without iTunes because there are better "phones" out there but the very special thing about the iPhone is the combination between the iPhone, internet and iTunes. Of course the GUI is great and everything but without iTunes account and buying stuff at iTunes, the iPhone is a nice toy, nothing more in my opinion.

Getting back to the internet connection: of course I can use a 1.1.1 iPhone for the next 10 years without having to care about any counter-measures Apple takes to block me from using it. What's the point? If you don't connect the iPhone to the internet through iTunes, many features, updates, bugfixes, security fixes, etc. won't be available to you. Maybe some people don't care and just want to have a fancy shiny toy in their pocket to show off but I and others are actually USERS who really USE the iPhone on a daily basis, including iTunes and the iTunes shop.
The iPhone is special because of iTunes too, without iTunes and the stuff available at the iTunes shop, the iPhone is castrated. Of course I can convert (illegally) DVDs to watch them on the iPhone, of course I can download free MP3 stuff from the internet to listen to on the iPhone but is it really worth all the hassle? Aren't there better media players for this stuff on the market? (hint: my Archos 504 has 160 GB and currently holds over 100(!) movies and 300 songs).

For me(us?), the only REAL unlock/activation hack is the one which permits a FULL usage of the iPhone, including iTunes, including officially available third party apps next year, incl. updates, incl. recovery, etc.
If people can live with "crippled" iPhones, just use a 1.1.1 iPhone with the 4.01.xx baseband and I'm sure the basic functions will work til the end of days.

So when you buy the phone from T-Mo and have them ring it in what happens before you activate with iTunes if you stick in a Vodaphone SIM for example? Do you get the customary invalid SIM message? And if so does activating with iTunes resolve this? And if so, what happens if you then put another provider's SIM in (not Voda or T-Mo, but someone else's)? If nothing happens and the phone accepts the new SIM then the phone is completely unlocked and whatever iTunes did to unlock the phone should be thoroughly investigated to see if it can be replicated on other 1.1.2 phones. The current methods of unlocking are a pain in the ass due to the level of steps needed to restore or upgrade.

Just a thought about iTunes -- who cares if iTunes checks everytime you connect the iPhone to it? Because if the phone is truly unlocked at that point simply find a way to crack the file on the phone that iTunes accesses to do the check, or turn off your internet before loading iTunes. Someone with a proper phone should do these things:

1) Insert foreign SIM prior to activation to see what happens
2) Sniff the port to see what iTunes does to activate, also document any and all changes made to the software, FW and BB and BL to the iPhone
3) Turn off their internet and reload iTunes and see if you can still sync, etc without it "re-checking" the phone.
4) Insert another foreign SIM and see what the phone does (whether it's completely locked or simply unlocked for the previous SIM)

My guess is iTunes validates and activates the phone just like it does with current phones, but in this instance it also unlocks it completely (meaning use whatever SIM). However I would guess that when it comes to restoring the phone or when upgrading the software when it comes time to activate the phone with iTunes again it will re-authorise that validity of the unlock. However this may not mean the phone has been re-locked, but that it's simply un-activated at that point which we all know is easy to get around. I believe people are believing this all to be more complicated and sinister on Apple's part than it really is. I'm not saying the unlock provided via iTunes will be easy or even possible to recreate, however I don't believe you have to worry over iTunes so much once it's done whatever it has done except when the phone has been restored or upgraded (which is exactly how it is now for valid contracted customers).

Interesting stuff indeed...

I can see the hackers finding a way to make iTunes unlock the phone. Whether the iPhones are running something different out of the box than in USA to allow this to happen and how we could get that is another story though..

I don't really see the iTunes verification each time being an issue. Simply shut off WiFi during a sync..doesn't bother me. I think they will find a way from disabling that check anyway...

hey mate in that posting are you saying that i should, when i get the iphone tomoro, completely avoid using itunes 7.5 to sync the iphone and activation

led-zep your phone if unlocked it will already be activated.

So all you do is just synch like any old iPod

I sync my FW 1.1.1 on iTunes 7.5 in Leopard every other day & change music & videos.

Here is the end of the converstaion untill these guys play tomorrow with the Genuine Unlocked iPhone.

I hate to repeat myself: the unlock is IMEI controlled, no matter what information we gather from the unlock process sniffing, it will be pretty much worthless in an attempt to find a "final" unlock solution.

Like it or not but the Apple iPhone can't be compared to other unlocked cell phones where you unlock it once and you're done. It is also very likely that Apple will offer improvements and additional "goodies" with future firmware updates, so there is no way to avoid connecting the iPhone to the internet through iTunes, unless you really don't care about updates, recovery, improvements, bugfixes, etc.

It is getting more and more difficult to unlock the iPhone and I predict that it ain't going to be easier in the future. Apple may not care much about activation/jailbreaks but they care about unlocks. So sooner or later, we may find ourselves in the situation that an unlock is practically impossible and jailbreaking/activating is all which is left. This is still better than nothing and I'm afraid that with the introduction of the SDK next year, jailbreaking will be even tougher. I hope I'm wrong but Apple wants to earn money with third party apps and since the distribution is very likely to happen through iTunes, again IMEI dependent, it is also very likely that Apple will do EVERYTHING to protect this distribution/sales model.

We will know more tomorrow but as far as I understood from an Apple source, the unlock IS indeed a permanent unlock BUT at least after each firmware update, the IMEI has to be counter-checked with Apple (using iTunes during a live internet connection!) to make it work. This is NOT a baseband unlock but some sort of IMEI controlled unlock.

We need to see tomorrow if a SIM change requires connecting to iTunes or not. If it requires the iPhone to be connected to iTunes to "activate" the new SIM, sniffing the unlock process is worthless. This means that Apple checks (and very likely records) each SIM unlock process, so they know exactly which IMEI uses what kind (carrier) of SIM card. Basically this isn't a real unlock but it allows the iPhone user to use any SIM card with it. Very clever if true.

Ok here are two threds sorry in german with this unlock process. All I can say it sucks bad and even worse when you think 999 euro's.

http://www.macnotes.de/2007/11/22/ip...ten-eindrucke/

http://www.telefon-treff.de/showthre...40#post2739440

I look more forward to my follow up conversation with the boys tommorrow when they have the creature in there hands.

Here is the latest update from Germany on the T moble unlocked iPhone. It looks like one sad situation.

Update on my "unlock" situation: over 45 hours have passed and nothing. The T-Mobile service employee told me that I just need to put the new SIM inside and it should work. When I told her that iTunes actually does the "job", she told me that I can't use iTunes with the new SIM, just telephony and SMS services. Ouch, she didn't have a clue. I started to be a little bit more blunt and she tried to connect me to Apple directly. Apple refused(!), they told her that this "issue" lies in the responsibility of T-Mobile. I had the feeling that T-Mobile and Apple aren't really friends regarding the whole unlock matter, apparently T-Mobile put Apple unter pressure after the court order. What can I say, T-Mobile doesn't seem to be ready for the iPhone but it is somehow excuseable since the unlock is something very new. I don't get however Apple's attitude in this matter, they refused to speak with the customer directly. Strange indeed.

Here is another update from another guy I am chatting with in Germany.

update:

today i have been at the t-mob store the third time. NOW they are telling me that my imei has never been transfered to apple. so i have to wait another 24hrs

but here comes the best part:

i ask him about the missing edge settings and that i might not be able to use it with my eplus simcard for emails on-the-go. if that doesnt work its pretty mutch useless for me. he then told me that he is "not allowed" to cash back if this doesnt work cause my "imei is allready used". i would have to call t-mobile itself to try to get a refund. hear, hear...

in adition to the (not yet confirmed) fact that you will loose all data everytime you swap a new sim card in this is far away from a real unlocked phone. they might get in kind of a trouble with the german laws. i told him that the dealer will be held responsible for that, but again he just said that they are not allowed to give a refund for so called "used iphones".

i wonder if vodafone would care about such news. i am not hesitating to call their law department and see what they mean.

what a piece of crap all that....

That's a hell of a lot of money for a phone/ ipod. Nearly the same price as a macbook or imac (in germany that is). Cripes!

I've decided just to wait for the official Aussie release in all its locked-down glory. I can't be a**ed with all the hassle of hacking and praying, and missing out on updates ...

I was considering getting an official unlocked iPhone from France or Germany - till I saw the price.

Totally agree!!

i guess i have come to the fact that will be telstra and we will have to live with it

al

This will be the last updat I will post from the guys in Germany with unlocked iPhone from T mobile. This sorta sums up the situation & when France also has the same should be similar.

OK guys, here's a little update: I talked today to somebody inside the "higher hierarchy" of T-Mobile Germany and he told me some very surprising things. This guy is NOT lying, I know him for a while through a business partner and he is reliable.

1. Apple can't cope with the many unlock requests, T-Mobile has sold more 999/399 Euro unlocked iPhones than initially expected. Right now, Apple seems to be a couple of days(!) behind with the unlocks, especially due to the Thanksgiving holiday in the US. Each and every single IMEI has to be send to Apple through Fax and the name(!) of the owner has to be included too (surprising).
If somebody got his iPhone already unlocked within a shorter period of time, it is just pure LUCK. Since the IMEI has to be entered MANUALLY into the iTunes system at Apple, it is possible that one employee works faster than the other and/or that one got more IMEI to work on and one less.

2. according to him, there is no known "not working unlock". Apple isn't aware of any issues either, the unlock is working, they just need time to apply the IMEI flags into the iTunes system. T-Mobile shops who sent iPhones back to Apple or whereever, actually didn't have to, apparently there was some sort of misunderstanding.

3. customers who got the 399 Euro iPhone with contract will very likely get a preferred unlock (meaning: faster) but personally, I can't confirm this.

4. NONE of the german T-Mobile shops has ANY (internal or unofficial) order to refuse selling unlocked iPhones to customers, this is pure nonsense. There are enough iPhones available in most shops and since there is no need for a SPECIFIC iPhone (all iPhones can be unlocked), there is no such thing as "we ran out of a 999 Euro iPhone but we still have a 399 Euro contract iPhone". T-Mobile is aware of some problems some employees apparently have with the court order and their loyalty is flattering but there hasn't been ANY order from "above" to refuse selling unlocked iPhones or to hide them from customers. The only thing which T-Mobile doesn't do is "open" advertisement for unlocked iPhones.
I can actually confirm this, the T-Mobile shop employee didn't hesitate a second to sell me an unlocked iPhone and he didn't tell me ANY bull.

5. customers of an unlocked iPhone with or without contract but especially those WITH a contract should ask for the name of employees who apparently don't want to sell unlocked iPhones and/or who tell customers untrue things like "the flatrate could be cancelled later on if you unlock your 399 Euro iPhone" or "even if you use your iPhone with a different SIM, you still have to pay a lot of money for data transfer since the iPhone is online all the time and you don't have the special T-Mobile flatrate" or "if you unlock your iPhone, internet and the iTunes WiFi shop won't work anymore".
As soon as you got the name of this employee, send an official complaint letter(fax is even better) incl. all details and the employee's name to T-Mobile Germany (contact numbers on their homepage).

Sounds good...but my iPhone is still locked. He called a number in Düsseldorf and had my IMEI entered into the system again (it was already in the "waiting line") to make sure that I don't get p.ss.d again.

I'll keep you updated, guys.

And yes, T-Mobile has NO intention whatsoever to continue selling the 999 EUR unlocked iPhone. If the court order is in T-Mobile's favour, the sale of the 999 Euro iPhone will be stopped, it is also very likely that the unlock of 399 Euro iPhones with iPhone contract will the stopped too.
Btw: removing the "netlock" (SIM Lock) was NEVER planned by T-Mobile/Apple, even after the 2-year period of contract. Just for your information. This is interesting because T-Mobile offers for all their other "net locked" cell phones an unlock for 99 Euro or a free unlock after the subscription period ends. No such thing for the iPhone.

So maybe this is the last chance to get a TRUE unlocked iPhone before the court order on Thursday. It is not known if this court order will be final (very likely not because T-Mobile or Vodafone will fight it if it isn't in their favour) but if the court needs to analyze the situation further, it is very likely that the temporary court order will be lifted for the time being, meaning no more officially unlocked iPhones.

What a mess! Reading that has made my decision to go with another brand of phone easier. I couldn't care less how much better the iPhone is compared to the competition. Screw with the iPhone and Apple will lock the IMEI, by the sounds of it.

Ok finally the T mobile unlock process is working. Here is the scoop from folks in Germany.

Officially Unlocked T-Mobile Germany iPhone - Real Life Experience
Here we go boys and girls, I can finally offer a first hand experience with my own officially unlocked T-Mobile iPhone:

1. unlock clearly is executed through IMEI and iTunes 7.5

2. unlock does NOT require to be logged in into iTunes with an iTunes account (I activated my T-Mobile iPhone a couple of days ago using my german iTunes account but my US iTunes Shop account works fine too now)

3. the unlock takes place in around 7-10 seconds

4. if you downgrade to 1.1.1, the unlock is GONE but as soon as you connect your iPhone to iTunes 7.5 (CAUTION: lower iTunes versions DO NOT UNLOCK, V 7.5 or higher is mandatory for the unlock to work!), the 1.1.1 FW is activated, I get the "Congratulations, you device is now unlocked" message in iTunes but apparently the unlock does NOT work with FW 1.1.1, only with 1.1.2 (I get a no Service message with my Vodafone SIM and a pop up windows saying "waiting for activation") but the iPhone is activated (the "waiting for activation" message refers to carrier activation), I can access the GUI and there was no need for the *#307#... trick.

5. after downgrading to 1.1.1, using jailbreakme.com installs the Installer which allows me to install the Oktoprep patch to be able to jailbreak 1.1.2

6. Updating to 1.1.2 works fine too, again I get at the end of the update the message "Congratulations, your iPhone has been unlocked".

7. Jailbreaking the 1.1.2 UNLOCKED iPhone is a piece of cake again, using the Java utility.

8. No issues with installing and running third party apps either.

9. Unlock STAYS when I change the SIM card, a RESET in the settings menue (no big deal) is recommended.

Short summary: the unlock works but it is now very clear to me that there is no unlock without iTunes and especially no unlock without iTunes CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET after a firmware downgrade/update (which can be performed even without a live internet connection).

So sorry, boys and girls but without a live internet connection and iTunes 7.5 or higher, the unlock works only with the firmware already used. If you update or downgrade the firmware, the iPhone needs to be connected to iTunes including a LIVE INTERNET CONNECTION.

Unfortunately this also means that Apple could at ANY TIME refuse the unlock if they want to but I don't think that they're going to do that, unless somebody really pulls off a IMEI spoofing but I wouldn't recommend it since Apple isn't stupid. You need to understand how easy it is for Apple to blacklist an unlocked
IMEI.

As a last word: in my opinion, the unlock is actually NOT a real unlock. A real unlock should be permanent, embedded somewhere deep in the baseband.
I don't know if the currently IMEI unlocked iPhone will automatically unlock "forever" with a possible bootloader update (Apple could update a different bootloader to IMEI unlocked iPhones) but this surely would be a better solution than the current one.

I hope this experience clarifies some confusions and misunderstandings.

I think Apple would be in real trouble if at any point they locked an unlocked phone. That's the kind of thing class action suits are made of.