[dotnet]

Originally Posted by ~Coxy

Course it doesn't deter Apple, they're a member of the trade organisation that makes money from licensing the patents.

Aren't they also on the board of the Blu-Ray Disc Association?

Never mind, I realise that "bags of hurt" are not arguments to be taken seriously but rather things to hide behind.

Cheers
Steffen.

[marc]

More Flash hate: "We’ve decided to disable plugin (not to be confused with add-ons, which are supported) support for this release. The Adobe Flash plugin used on many sites degraded the performance of the browser to the point where it didn’t meet our standards."

Firefox for Maemo RC3 blog.pavlov.net

Everyone's putting the boot in now.

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by ruegen

uhuh like when they load a page and a it crashes or slows their mac down all because of a plugin?

Can't say that ever happens to me. Though really my only need for flash is sites like kongregate which I don't think could be moved to HTML5 even if it wanted to.

[zillatron]

Originally Posted by marc

Everyone's putting the boot in now.

Death by a thousand cuts. Who next I wonder?

Installed ClickToFlash on my iMac the other day, it's friken amazing how much faster the web is without Flash.
Before anyone expends too much energy defending Adobe, I highly recommend giving ClickToFlash a try.

Dan

edit: Kill-Flash for Chrome on Windows.

[Phunky]

Lets add some more fuel to the fire

/dons flamesuite

Giz Explains: Why HTML5 Isn't Going to Save the Internet - HTML5 - Gizmodo

HTML vs. Flash: Can a turf war be avoided? | Deep Tech - CNET News

Basic conclusion, Flash wont be dead anytime soon

[macrob69]

Originally Posted by ruegen

Jilion - SublimeVideo

One thing you will notice the video linked above also stays cached (at least I think it does) allowing you to replay the video again even after closing the page with no need to download the video in full again.

Nice

[ruegen]

Originally Posted by Phunky

Lets add some more fuel to the fire

/dons flamesuite

Giz Explains: Why HTML5 Isn't Going to Save the Internet - HTML5 - Gizmodo

HTML vs. Flash: Can a turf war be avoided? | Deep Tech - CNET News

Basic conclusion, Flash wont be dead anytime soon

It's not that I expect everyone to leave flash overnight but if your show another door that can be used the exit can be quicker.

[eron]

Wow. Thank you for verbalising so well and putting into video alot of the thoughts I have towards negative comments on the iPad.

[marc]

Originally Posted by Phunky

Basic conclusion, Flash wont be dead anytime soon

The only thing that'll keep it alive will be the long tail of slow adopters (ie. the same kind of people that still run IE). I think the bleeding edge has already moved on and the bulk of websites will follow shortly.

[Renoman]

Originally Posted by ruegen

Jilion - SublimeVideo

One thing you will notice the video linked above also stays cached (at least I think it does) allowing you to replay the video again even after closing the page with no need to download the video in full again.

That loaded up and played like a charm on the iPhone over optus 3G. Nice little photography piece too

[andoneo]

I'd like to see HTML 5 do this:

2Advanced v5 - Attractor

I remember I used to get a boner over this kinda thing 10 years ago when I was studying multimedia. One of the essential appeals of flash was that it let designers develop websites without coding. It was very empowering.

Also, I think the current trend is minimalist design. Flash doesn't really sit well with that but trends change.

And where would we be without Flash. We wouldn't have all the animated cartoon gems that kept us laughing over the years...from the Metallica Napster vid to the Steve Jobs Vs Bill Gates series. Pure Gold...all lovingly made with Flash.

And maybe that's what Adobe should stick to with Flash - focus on thoses strengths in the animation and games areas.

I think applications like 2advanced.com are so engaging and have great ambiance that would translate well to say the iPad. I also don't think HTML 5 could do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ruegen]

Originally Posted by andoneo

I'd like to see HTML 5 do this:

2Advanced v5 - Attractor

I remember I used to get a boner over this kinda thing 10 years ago when I was studying multimedia. One of the essential appeals of flash was that it let designers develop websites without coding. It was very empowering.

Also, I think the current trend is minimalist design. Flash doesn't really sit well with that but trends change.

And where would we be without Flash. We wouldn't have all the animated cartoon gems that kept us laughing over the years...from the Metallica Napster vid to the Steve Jobs Vs Bill Gates series. Pure Gold...all lovingly made with Flash.

And maybe that's what Adobe should stick to with Flash - focus on thoses strengths in the animation and games areas.

I think applications like 2advanced.com are so engaging and have great ambiance that would translate well to say the iPad. I also don't think HTML 5 could do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

HTML5 Canvas and Audio Experiment

While I did a short search for this, and this IS an experimental project (javascript particle effect) - this is only the beginning of HTML 5 and there is probably something better out there I just haven't seen yet.

[marc]

Originally Posted by andoneo

And where would we be without Flash. We wouldn't have all the animated cartoon gems that kept us laughing over the years...from the Metallica Napster vid to the Steve Jobs Vs Bill Gates series. Pure Gold...all lovingly made with Flash.

You couldn't just author it using any tool you want, then render it to video and upload it that way? Sure, the file is probably going to be larger, but you'll also get the benefit of hardware acceleration (where appropriate) and playback as soon as enough has buffered. You could even use Flash as the creation tool, if you wanted

Originally Posted by andoneo

And maybe that's what Adobe should stick to with Flash - focus on thoses strengths in the animation and games areas.

You're probably right. I don't have any issue with people using Flash for games or animation, it's when they try to build an entire website with it that it fails.

Originally Posted by andoneo

I think applications like 2advanced.com are so engaging and have great ambiance that would translate well to say the iPad. I also don't think HTML 5 could do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't see anything there that couldn't be built with HTML and JavaScript (there would also be some huge benefits*). I'm not saying it'd be an easy project, but I think it'd be a challenge even in Flash.

What we're really waiting on is more libraries like jQuery that do a lot of the heavy lifting. That way projects can be built quickly.

Note that I'm not talking exclusively about HTML5. HTML4 is still very capable.

*I wonder how long they took getting some of the pages linkable. This is the kind of thing that you get for free when using HTML.

[ruegen]

more Lines go all over the place.

Experiments - Detail - Another World JS

And one more just to show what is possible without flash
Sketchpad - Online Paint/Drawing application

[marc]

Originally Posted by zillatron

Installed ClickToFlash on my iMac the other day, it's friken amazing how much faster the web is without Flash.
Before anyone expends too much energy defending Adobe, I highly recommend giving ClickToFlash a try.

I recently installed ClickToFlash too. It's interesting to see how many sites *don't* use Flash. I was expecting more empty boxes. It's just a few ads and videos on the sites I regularly visit.

[Japester]

Originally Posted by marc

I recently installed ClickToFlash too. It's interesting to see how many sites *don't* use Flash. I was expecting more empty boxes. It's just a few ads and videos on the sites I regularly visit.

That's true, although sites where they use too much stand out because they often use Flash for headings instead of text. What madness is that? At least use an optimised GIF or JPEG. Madness!

[andoneo]

Your not overly selling javascript/HTML 5 design very well guys. Those examples looked awful and were slow and unresponsive...except for the sketch pad which was ok I guess. The scary thing is that it's taken HTML/Javascript how many years to be that bad? Come on... there must be better HTML/jscript stuff out there than that to argue the case for rich media design .

iPad will enable Flash eventually. I would put money on it. What was it Jobs said. The tablet should do things like email and browsing web better than a laptop??? Otherwise why bother!

How is it better when it doesn't fully support the internet?

[Japester]

Originally Posted by andoneo

...The tablet should do things like email and browsing web better than a laptop??? Otherwise why bother!

How is it better when it doesn't fully support the internet?

I think Jobs' statement here is widely misinterpreted. People think it means "can display everything on the internet". I think it means "interacting with the web on a device shaped like a piece of paper with touch gestures is the best experience of the web." I have no doubt that the iPad will be the nicest way to use the internet.

[andoneo]

hmmmm so the

Originally Posted by Japester

best experience of the web."

doesn't include full YouTube access? or Hulu, Vimeo, Daily Motion, Funny or Die. etc I could go on.

Flash is now representing the best way to monetise video traffic. It's just hitting it's stride in this area and is set to make a lot of people a lot of money. And HTML 5 has nothing to even come close to this.

Adobe have got a long road ahead though. When you have Apple trying to kill you and Microsoft just trying to rip you off because they can your days are probably numbered. Their one saving grace is YouTube and Google backing. Not a bad big brother to have on your side. And again the whole HTML 5 testing thing is just that a test. Refer to my comments on monetising video for any doubt on where Googles allegiances lie.

Another point people make is that Flash is an Adobe proprietary standard and the internet should be open standard. Guess what folks...H.264 is proprietary, and Apple has been promoting that as the way forward. Open internet standards my ass.

[Japester]

Originally Posted by andoneo

hmmmm so the

doesn't include full YouTube access? or Hulu, Vimeo, Daily Motion, Funny or Die. etc I could go on.

Flash is now representing the best way to monetise video traffic. It's just hitting it's stride in this area and is set to make a lot of people a lot of money. And HTML 5 has nothing to even come close to this.

Adobe have got a long road ahead though. When you have Apple trying to kill you and Microsoft just trying to rip you off because they can your days are probably numbered. Their one saving grace is YouTube and Google backing. Not a bad big brother to have on your side. And again the whole HTML 5 testing thing is just that a test. Refer to my comments on monetising video for any doubt on where Googles allegiances lie.

Another point people make is that it's an Adobe proprietary standard and the internet should be open standard. Guess what folks...H.264 is proprietary, and Apple has been promoting that as the way forward. Open internet standards my ass.

At least there's a great YouTube app on the iPad. Don't forget that.

What do you mean, "H.264 is proprietary"? It's not owned by Apple, you know.

Do you read Gruber? He probably explains this the best.