Hi all

THis might be a bit of a curly one. So I'll describe the symptoms and what I've done about it so far, to save everyone some time.

I've got a G4 (see sig.) which has been misbehaving ever since I upgraded from 10.4.8 to 10.4.9. Common problems were:
- bluescreening (i.e. grey screen with "you need to restart" in different languages; or
- kernel panic error being written over the top of whatever is on the screen, and screen freezing; or
- booting into open firmware unintentionally.

After what has been perhaps a few too many force-restarts (by holding power button) this has now progressed to also include:
- hanging after power-on but before OS detection; or
- hanging after OS detection (grey apple logo) but before boot progress bar.
- hanging whilst doing a clean install from tiger DVD.
- hanging a few seconds after booting in target disk mode

I am therefore now convinced that the issue has progressed beyond the hard drive!

So. I can't boot from any drive (HD or other HD or optical or even another physical optical drive internally installed), i can't even boot into target disk mode.

As far as my data is concerned, it's all soundly backed up.

I then went into the next mode and:
- Reset PRAM (couldn't via cmd-opt-P-R, as wouldn't boot up enough and restart upon recognising key sequence). Couldn't do via open firmware, as would freeze when in OF. Couldn't reset PRAM or NVRAM therefore. Ideally I would've liked to reset them both 4 or 5 times over.
- Hard reset switch on logic board - just like Bush Jr, I pushed the magic button but it didn't really help matters.

I have isolated through trial and error and fiddling around that the issue is not casused by:
- HD1
- HD2
- Optical volume or even drive
- Any of the RAM chips
- Any of the RAM slots

Naturally I have unplugged all periphs with the exception of keyboard (stock) and monitor.

It doesn't appear to be a power supply issue prima facie, as everything is spinning up and has power etc, however that of course doesn't rule out voltage irregularities etc.

I hear no beeps on startup.

Leaving machine unplugged from any power or peripherals, totally switched off at wall etc. for extended times (e.g. 24 hrs) doesn't seem to help.

Starting up with option key gets me to the choice of volumes but freezes before it lets me select one.

This leaves me with the following candidates, in order (I think) of possibility:
1. PRAM contains gibberish (but I can't reset it)
2. Firmware (or ROM) is somehow corrupt in some way or other
3. Logic board is rooted
4. Aftermarket processor (Sonnet Encore) is causing the issue, or it's something to do with compatibility etc. Though I've never had any problems yet.
5. Sync to LCD monitor isn't occurring and is therefore causing machine to freeze very very early in the boot sequence (i.e. before it begins).
6. Graphics card is corrupt
7. PSU is causing the issues.

Any ideas?

At the moment, I would guess that of the 50 most recent boots:
- 45 have been after hard shutdowns
- 5 have frozen in target disk mode
- 10 have been from install DVD, 2 of which froze during reinstall progress
- 20 have not made it more than a few seconds into boot, and have frozen before even recognising any volumes
- 10 have not been recognised by the monitor as a signal (is still in standby "no-signal" mode).

It's well and truly tme for a new computer (check!) but I wanted to use the old one as a beastly server and backup machine. This would still probably work as long as the problem isn't no. 3 or 7 above - I just need to work out how to actually fix it first!

I could swap the processor back to the original 450MHz one but I don't want to do that until I know that that's the culprit coz I reckon it'll be a pain with the processor cement etc.

If anyone can shed any light on my predicament I would be most grateful!

Cheers.

EDIT: This isn't in the help thread coz i'm not a new user or switcher - if this interpretation is bunkum, please feel free to relocate it. Ta.

Had something like this on my mac mini a few weeks back. For me, it was the harddisk that failed.

Primary HD failure can interfere with initial boot up detect process, or clean install onto same failed harddisk.

If you have everything backup, you should try clean install but before proceeding, run disk utility to complete erase and reformat the suspect primary harddisk.

Or swap out the suspect harddisk with a known working harddisk and do a clean install.

Just my 2 cents worth

I'd swap out the processor now to the old 450 and see how it runs... secondly who made the upgraded processor? Does it need additional / 3rd party software to run? (from memory some did)

Thanks.

I've tried this - in about 20 boot attempts, I managed to get it to boot from install DVD about twice. Both times, I went for the reformat & install, and it froze (grey screen telling me to restart in several languages) halfway through the install process.

Yeah I'm thinking that's my next trick - but I want to leave it till last if there's any other ideas, coz I might not be able to get the old one back on without heaps of hassles with the cement.

It's a Sonnet Encore 1.4GHz processor (i.e. Sonnet is manufacturer brand name, Encore is brand name of model range). It required installation of firmware patch in OS9, which I did.

It has served me without a hitch for a couple of years now, in many versions of OSX and pre-OSX, and with various hard drives etc etc.

Update:

My startup chime is now replaced with a harsh scratching noise of about the same duration...

I know this might sound silly - yet it's merely a guess.

Both Sawtooth AGPs and QuickSilvers often seem to come a' cropper the moment the outside temperature rises.

Tried opening the side door and training a fan on it for around 10 minutes before starting her up...?

As you can see by my OP, I'm down to clutching at guesses at the minute.

This problem has slowly developed itself over a number of weeks so I don't think it's the heat.

However, I'll give it a try tomorrow. Might clean all the dust out whilst i'm at it.

Cheers.

Screech on power-up means major failure mode -- either one of the RAM chips has failed, or the motherboard's RAM controller is on its last legs, or perhaps even some of the motherboard capacitors are starting to degrade.

Judging on what you've described so far, I'd say your motherboard is about to go and meet its maker.


Brains

Can we see a copy of the panic.log? (/Library/Logs/panic.log)

I'd love to be able to boot up and get into my HDD data (panic.log would be a good candidate for examination) however it seems booting sensibly is a bit of a bother at the moment.

I will post it when i get access to it.

At the moment I'm working slowly towards that as it will involve either:
1. Transfer via SATA/IDE adapter (i don't have one)
2. Transfer via IDE/USB or IDE/FW cable (i don't have one)
3. Transfer via inserting HD in another IDE mac (i don't have one)
4. Transfer via external IDE enclosure (i don't have one)
5. Transfer via PC with MacOpener enabled (i don't have one)
6. Transfer via booting up my G4 from any medium (HD, DVD, CD, FW Target etc) - not seeming to work at the moment!

Any other methods I could use?

Anyone from MacTalk in your general area, Rtc, who has an AGP G4 - and could give you access to swapping the HDs over?

Dunno mate - I'm in Malvern (Melb) - any help would be greatly appreciated but it's probly a weekend job.

It might be a matter of finding someone who has an IDE slot spare in a machine somewhere, and some way of getting that to SATA (via same machine or networked, Firewire etc).

I'm loathe to transport a drive with my backup data on it coz i actually need a lot of it (and have no access at the moment) and i'm paranoid about transporting hard drives.

A volunteer who is willing to travel and has a laptop and a portable firewire hard drive enclosure that will accept a 3.5" IDE drive would be a godsend, but I'm not counting on any miracles unless it happens that it would totally suit someone who is bored anyway. Anyone?

EDIT: Or just anyone with an external HD enclosure that will fit an IDE drive who is willing to lend it to me for a day (perhaps there is some favour I can do for you in return).

Okay so I've found a way to transfer data from my old IDE hard drives (currently in progress).

Next, is setting up my old G4 as a server.

Although, it still won't initiate the boot sequence without hanging.

Sometimes about 30 seconds after power-off, it emits a low hum that sounds like it's in duress - kind of like maybe a fan trying to spin but is stuck (but this ain't what it is, just what it SOUNDS like).

I've narrowed it down to faulty power supply or faulty logic board.

Anyone else had similar symptoms?

It would be a real pity to shelve the G4 - the architecture and layout is designed so well that it just screams "get some PCI cards and load me with six hard drives and make me a server".

These are very common models rtc. You should be able to pickup a logic board and PSU very cheaply. I have seen working machines go on ebay for as low as $55.
Stewie